[00:00:00] Rayna Neises: Welcome. This is Rayna Neises, your host of A Season of Caring Podcast, where we share stories of hope for family caregivers, breaking through the loneliness and busyness of caregiving life to see God even in the middle of the season.

[00:00:16] Today, I’m excited to introduce you to our guest, Debra Lee. Debra is an author, keynote speaker, blogger, biz and life coach. She owns the DL Biz Services, which offers biz coaching, biz classes, and small business services for marketing and development growth. She’s a wife, a mother, and enjoys teaching Bible studies to women in the Wichita community, helping them to make better choices for their lives.

[00:00:41] Hi Debra, it’s so good to have you here today.

[00:00:42] Debra Lee: Thank you for having me. This is a delight.

[00:00:46] Rayna Neises: Well, share with us a little bit about your caregiving and what that’s looked like in your

[00:00:50] life.

[00:00:50] Debra Lee: My caregiving experiences started when I was in my mid twenties, and so I had to deal with my grandparents through their medical appointments and through their hospital stays We did have a lot of help, a lot of family, cousins and things were around to help with that back then.

[00:01:08] A little bit later in my forties is when my father developed cancer. He only lasted maybe a couple of months after diagnosis. But I was able to be with him and help him through his treatments and appointments. And then right after he passed, my grandmother was diagnosed with dementia, Alzheimer’s. We had Still family around at that time so we all shared, with helping after my father died and my grandmother passed a couple of years later, my mother had a upside down breakdown. So I started caring for her. I’ve cared for her for 25 years now and taking care of her business needs, medical needs, things of that nature. She was able to stay at home until about four years ago when we had to bring her to a care facility. Who, takes very good care of her, but I’m still there still making medical decisions, taking care business.

[00:02:02] So, my caregiving has lasted over a span of decades and it’s just been a joy and a pleasure to be able to do it I feel

[00:02:11] Rayna Neises: It sounds like you’ve had really good teamwork within your family, which isn’t always the story for people. So it definitely is a blessing to have that. I think these seasons can actually help bond us together if we don’t kill each other, right? But with your mom, it sounds like it’s been a lot more challenging, just the length of time. And then being able to, I think sometimes navigate that relationship can probably be a little tricky in trying to support her, but not take over.

[00:02:37] Debra Lee: It’s been very tricky. We didn’t have family around at this point after, cousins and everybody had passed away. And so, it’s just basically been myself helping her. And she also has a mental health challenge and has for many years. And so dealing with, her challenges when she decides medicine isn’t necessary anymore and she goes down.

[00:03:00] And so, I found myself being the parent. And having to scold my own mother, which was very hard But she listened to me when I scolded her. She listened because she knew I was at my rope’s end. And then she’s like, okay, I get it. I need to take the burden here and quit, put it all on Debra it has been challenging just to be able to reverse that role.

[00:03:28] Rayna Neises: I think mental illness is something we, as, a society don’t talk about it is very difficult to understand because those lines of responsibility and illness are really difficult as far as choice are we choosing at the same time we give them choices taking yourself off of medication is a very typical experience for caregivers trying to support someone with a mental illness for them to decide, I don’t want to take meds and have that authority and autonomy.

[00:03:59] That’s such a hard dance to offer the support that they need. But at the same time, it ends up being live with the consequences of their choices and that can be really difficult.

[00:04:11] Debra Lee: is. And especially when you’re dealing with mental illness. It has put a strain on a relationship a lot of times and there’s times where I’ve had to put her in timeout, if you can believe that’s a thing, but There’s other times where I just had to be there immediately or we were going to end up in a psych ward.

[00:04:29] So, you just have to learn these balances and of course my mom was diagnosed when I was 14 years old. So this wasn’t anything that was new to me. It’s just that when my dad passed, he passed the baton to me and says, Your mom is yours now. So, he helped me to understand more fully of what I would be dealing with, which was wonderful that I had that information before he passed. And so that helped me to prepare better for how to take care of her. It has been a struggle, but I will tell you the last four years that she’s been in a nursing home has been our best relationship

[00:05:04] Rayna Neises: Was going to ask how that changed things.

[00:05:06] Debra Lee: Everything because the care facility is making sure the medications are administered properly and that she is getting them.

[00:05:16]

[00:05:16] Rayna Neises: Medication can be so such an important key to people, whether it be mental illness or other things, we have a tendency to just take it when we remember or, not worry about the time quite as much. And that regular schedule, it sounds like has been really impactful to the quality of her life.

[00:05:34] Debra Lee: Most certainly.

[00:05:35] Rayna Neises: That’s great. It’s good to have that partnership, to have a place that you feel that you have confidence in and really are doing a good job of providing that care. It changes a lot of things for people to have that extra team member in there, especially in that area. So share with us a favorite caregiving story that you have.

[00:05:55] Debra Lee: I have many, will share one about my grandmother. So my grandmother was a sweetheart when she, got Alzheimer’s dementia, all kinds of things, of course, was happening to her. She was diagnosed early where she understood. Stood What was happening and what was going to happen to her. .

[00:06:13] And one time I did ask her grandmother, are you afraid to die? What are you afraid of? And she’s like, no, I’m not afraid to die. She was a great Christian woman and she’s, I’m not afraid to die. I’m afraid of what this disease is going to do to me. You know, so, she had enough mind to recognize this.

[00:06:31] So as it progressed, we would still have our giggle moments. I would cook her dinner and take it over and just. She had little people in her life and the little people were, Oh, maybe two feet tall and they look like dolls. . So, so they would stand in corners and, and watch our conversations and stuff. And one day she told me, she says, we were having one of our giggle days and she says, look at this little dolls over there. standing in the corner, the little people. And I looked at her and I said, Grandma, you know, there’s really no little people standing in the corner, right? And she looked at me and she had this most onerous grin that she would get when we played.

[00:07:13] And she goes, I know that. just laughed forever that day. But I also recognize that the little people, the dark shadows, all these things were also terrifying to her. That that was a good day where we could laugh about it. And so that was a fun time.

[00:07:31] Rayna Neises: Yeah. It’s so important to join the moment and just to make the best of what you got right there. And so I love that you were both able to laugh about that and have that special memory. So what would be one thing that surprised you most about caregiving? You’ve been doing it most of your life, so it probably takes a little bit to think about something that surprised you, but what surprised you?

[00:07:51] Debra Lee: I a couple of things. I know that I’m not all that in a bag of chips when it comes to caregiving. So there’s some medical things that just kind of make me cringe.

[00:08:02] Rayna Neises: Yes.

[00:08:03] Debra Lee: But also I think learning how to live in their world, especially like Alzheimer’s dementia, it can become frustrating. It’s like, why are they doing it that way? And don’t they get it? And what’s, you know, and So to step okay, be that person. How are they feeling? How are they thinking?

[00:08:22] And so when kind of get that mindset, okay, so I understand now why So It’s just a matter of understanding that you have to put yourself in their world. It came in very handy once I learned how to do that. When my father in law got Alzheimer’s and my husband was losing his temper, like I don’t get it, I don’t understand it, I don’t know why he’s acting like this.

[00:08:43] And so I helped him to see how to put himself in his dad’s place so he could better understand. What is going on and you have to live in their world. So when he calls at three in the morning and says, there’s bombs going off outside the window, you know how to act, you know, he’s back in the Korean war and this is what he’s processing right now.

[00:09:04] So learning how to do that. And, um, it’s just kind of surprising that we can adapt to that and learn how to feel like them.

[00:09:13] Rayna Neises: That’s such an important point because we can do it, but it’s kind of not our natural instinct. We want to correct. We want to bring them back to our reality and that doesn’t do any good. They can’t join us. And so learning how to join them really is a skill. And sometimes it makes you feel a little crazy at the same time, it is something that really brings both of you a lot more peace because like you were sharing about your grandmother, that laughter and that joy in the moment versus the tension that comes with trying to talk them into our reality and so that is such an important task. And I think even when it’s not just dementia, but aging, so many times, as they get older, it’s harder for them to adjust to what reality is, life. today’s. Very different than even it was five years ago, right? And so it can be difficult to make those adjustments, but it can be so powerful whenever we’re able to do that, just join them where they are.

[00:10:12] Debra Lee: most certainly.

[00:10:13] Rayna Neises: It’s such a fun conversation with Debra. Today’s episode has been brought to you by Hope for a Caring Heart Journal. This is my journal that I created. It’s not just a journal. It’s a 90 day journey designed to uplift, inspire, and support those with compassionate task of caring for others. With a unique blend of scripture, prayer reflection and gratitude.

[00:10:37] This journal offers a structured path to spiritual resilience and emotional wellbeing. Each day presents an opportunity to discover new strength through scripture of hope, engaging in meaningful prayer, delving into reflective questions, that challenge and comfort acknowledging the blessings that surround us even in trying times, crafted to be your faithful companion. This journal is meant to be revisited, offering fresh insights and renewed hope with each cycle through its pages. You can purchase Hope for the Caring Heart Journal at www.Aseasonofcaring.com. And I would love to be able to send you a signed copies. So when you purchase one from there, you can get a signed copy. So thank you again for joining us today. And let’s jump back into our conversation with Debra.

[00:11:25] So share with us a time that God really showed up for you in your caregiving. I love these stories because it’s so much fun to see how He just shows off and how he can just really show us that he’s right there with us.

[00:11:40] Debra Lee: Yes, I have got to shut up so many times during my years of doing this and there’s just so many phenomenal stories that I would take up three hours but I’ve always been an optimist and, that’s just something gift that God had given me. And, so I see the good in things or maybe it was a few years later that I realized something happened. What the purpose of that was, and it’s the same thing with caregiving. It’s like we hate losing our loved ones through disease and things. but then what are lessons that were learned through there? During that time and how did. their life and passing affect other people for the good.

[00:12:22] So there’s just all kinds of ways that God has shown up, but I will speak about the time when my father passed away. He passed away a couple of months. Um, Being diagnosed and he had esophageal cancer. And so, that’s a very difficult cancer, to make any time actually, but, so it went pretty fast for him, but, it got, so bad, we ended up having to putting back into the hospital.

[00:12:45] And so I decided to spend the night with him, that last night. And so the morning I woke up. The nurse came in and said his vitals are coming up or his vitals were leaving us the night before, but she says his vitals are coming up and so I just, okay. And I know they roller coast. I know that I’ve been through a few of these.

[00:13:07] And so I went and sat next to him by his bed. And I noticed that, his kidneys had shut down everything was just going, but vitals were coming up. So I knew my brother was bringing my mom up to the hospital and I just sat there, read my Bible and prayed the hardest prayer I ever prayed.

[00:13:26] And that was for God to take my father, not to let him suffer any longer with this. And I also asked that he would do it before my mother got there because my mother has mental challenge. I knew that would be. That would turn her over if she was there when he breathed this last breath.

[00:13:43] And so I sat there, a couple of nurses came in, they were laughing really hard. And my dad in his coma raised his hand up and waved. The nurses just kind of stepped back and, I said, is he waving goodbye? And they’re like, we don’t know. We don’t know what goes on. And I’m like, okay.

[00:14:03] So they left the room, and I just continued praying and reading my Bible, and within 20 minutes, he breathed his last breath. And it was before my mother got there. So that isn’t the end of the story. Of course, I’m singing Hallelujah, because he’s finally at peace. But then this is very weird.

[00:14:21] I’ve never talked about it with anybody for nearly 15 years after his passing, but I could feel the angels in the room. It was a very strange feeling. peaceful moment. I’ve never felt it before with anybody else passing, but it was just like this huge peace. Like I could feel the angels in the room and then it was gone.

[00:14:43] And so I just thank God for giving me that, passing my dad and I were very close, but I was so thankful to God that I got to feel a bit of what he’s experienced in heaven. So, so that was, I would say a really big time that God showed up with answered

[00:15:02] Rayna Neises: Yeah. Definitely. That walking them all the way home is such a. experience. It’s hard to describe, but there is this moment of the veil thinning between the two worlds.

[00:15:16] Debra Lee: it is,

[00:15:17] Rayna Neises: They obviously see what we can’t see. We don’t see all those things, but that that’s beautiful that you could feel that presence and that there was such peace in it because it can be a very difficult process and each person kind of handles it differently, has their body shut down and all of those things. It can be pretty traumatic. So I love that he showed that to you and gave you that special memory and feeling.

[00:15:43] Debra Lee: yes, yes. This was, it was awesome.

[00:15:47] Rayna Neises: Share with us, what would be one thing that helps you to live content, love well, and care without regrets?

[00:15:53] Debra Lee: Oh my goodness, my faith, my faith gets me through so many things and even, Paul in the Bible learned content and that’s a gift and so to have that content in Christ, in God, it just fills you up where, and I have a word that I, in my books, I use, I want to itis kind of goes away.

[00:16:18] It’s like, I want everything. It’s an, I want itis. It’s like a disease. And that just kind of goes away when you have that content and peace, that God and Jesus gives us. And so certainly, that gets me through everything and helps me stay above water. And, but you know, we’ve got the Holy Spirit that guides us and tells us it is time to rest. It is time to sit down, And so just being strong in your faith, I say get you through everything.

[00:16:50] And like I say, I’ve been given a gift of being an optimist. I thoroughly enjoy that because then I’m able to help other people even through their darkest days. With a word that can help them. And so, you know, I have to say. That’s the answer to everything I got going on.

[00:17:07] Rayna Neises: Yeah. One of the things I love about faith is the fact that the scripture tells us it’s a gift. It’s not something we have to muster up inside of ourselves or something we have to, that pull us up by the bootstraps kind of thing. But rather it’s that moment of when we were feeling it wain, we can go to him and say, Give me more faith, help my unbelief, in those moments when it just doesn’t make sense. And we’re struggling through, he always will be faithful to give us what we need.

[00:17:35] Debra Lee: Most certainly always. He never fails.

[00:17:38] Rayna Neises: So share with our caregivers what would be one thing you’d just like to encourage them with. You have that gift of optimism share an encouragement with them. Yes.

[00:17:46] Debra Lee: Oh, just, I feel blessed that I didn’t have a 24 hour a day, every day, caregiving gig, that we had help, that we were able to afford help when needed. so I would just say, take care of yourself. A lot of people, you know, they’re the only ones caregiving. Take some time to do something If you can find a friend for just an hour to have coffee with someone that you trust sometimes those struggles are deep and very personal. You want to make sure it’s someone you trust that you can say out loud, I wish they’ll just die, and be okay with that because that is a thought.

[00:18:29] I remember one time my mother, when my father was dying, she goes, I don’t know what’s wrong with me. And I go, what? And she goes in my head, I’m already rearranging the house after your dad is gone. And I said, That’s okay mom, that’s your brain helping you process. What’s coming. And So that’s okay. So you need someone that you can trust that can say, it’s okay that you have these thoughts.

[00:18:51] It’s okay. It’s natural. It’s your brain protecting you. It’s your brain helping you. Find someone that you really, truly trust that you can share these deep things with and, And it’s okay because if you just keep it all up in here, it’s just, it’s going to destroy you too. So, you have to really take care of yourself and, you know, read your Bible, stay close to God, have those daily walks and talks with him. If you have a prayer closet, go to it for at least a minute, you know, if you can at least get a minute, that’s what I have.

[00:19:25] Rayna Neises: You have to find what works for you and I love hearing other people and how they do it because that gives us ideas of maybe something we haven’t tried before, but it’s definitely opportunities to hear things to try not to feel judged by or feel like you have to live up to a certain what somebody else does or what it looks like for them.

[00:19:46] So I love that encouragement to really help them find, find what works within their situation. I always say we have to ask questions. for help. But it is difficult when we don’t feel that there is anyone else around to be able to help. I have a lady in a support group that I talk with that was sharing her husband is has cancer.

[00:20:06] And so a lot of times those treatments being there isolated and they can’t leave the house or he doesn’t feel he doesn’t have enough energy to go and do. And she was talking about just the social challenges that she faced. And she said, I’m so blessed across the street. I have a neighbor who just I’m coming every Thursday at this time, we’re going to have coffee on the porch.

[00:20:25] And if you’re not out here, I’m going to pester a little bit because I want to be here. I want to spend time with you. I want to support you. I love that that is a person who is just being really, out front and forward about creating that relationship because as caregivers, sometimes we forget to ask.

[00:20:42] And oftentimes people are waiting for us to ask and there’s just so much going on that it’s a precious thing to have somebody who’s pushing their way in.

[00:20:51] Debra Lee: right, yes, yes, that’s important to have those people in your life and it is hard to ask for help. I mean, I did the same thing. I didn’t want to ask for help, but it’s kind of like I have to ask for help, It’s okay to do that.

[00:21:06] Rayna Neises: So many times when we’re outside of our caregiving season, when we’re not in a place where right now there’s a lot of needs, we need to look to be that person for others because. Caregivers are everywhere and when we have the opportunity to support them in a little different way, we want to be able to do that as well.

[00:21:24] Debra Lee: Most certainly.

[00:21:26] Rayna Neises: Debra, we really appreciate you being here today. I know you’re an author, so share with my audience. a little bit about your books and maybe how they might be able to find out a little bit more.

[00:21:35] Debra Lee: Okay. Sure. my first book is, It Is what It is, but it is, wasn’t a tragedy and that’s my life story. And it is, from birth on up to mid thirties, forties. And, I had a very crazy life in my past. And so I teach women how to make better choices for their lives. I work mainly with women. I work with women that are coming out of prison, out of rehab and just.

[00:21:59] Ordinary you who have a crazy, had crazy life experiences. And so I help people come out of that. So the second book is an actual Bible study that I take women through, and it’s called making wise choices, the most important life skill to master. And so with those two books together, I teach a six months out of the years for women, and I can do it in person or by zoom and you can get those books on amazon.

[00:22:22] com.

[00:22:24] Rayna Neises: All right. And I will link that to our show notes page as well. Thank you so much Debra for being here today and sharing a little bit of your caregiving stories and the encouragement

[00:22:33] of your journey.

[00:22:35] Debra Lee: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. God bless.

[00:22:41] Rayna Neises: Listeners, thank you for joining us for stories of hope from Debra. A Season of Caring Podcast has been created to share stories of hope for living content, loving, well, and caring without regrets. If you have legal financial or medical questions, be sure to consult your local professionals and take heart in your season of caring.

*Transcript is an actual recount of the live conversation