[00:00:00] Rayna Neises: Welcome. This is Rayna Neises with A Season of Caring Podcast, where we share stories of hope for family caregivers breaking through the busyness and loneliness of life to see God in the middle of even this season. Today I am excited to introduce you to Christy Byrne Yates. Christy is a licensed educational psychologist, a retired school psychologist, author, speaker, coach, and consultants. Her book Building the Legacy of Love: Thriving in the Sandwich Generation recounts her journey as working mother of two, who also managed the care of her parents, both of whom had some form of dementia. Combining her lived experience with her professional expertise in human development, wellness and strength-based approach to finding solutions, Christy develops content workshops and coaching to support sandwich families. She incorporates meditation, mindfulness, and other evidence-based mind body practices into her work. She works with care communities, financial professionals, estate planners and employers. Christie has a master’s degree in counseling, psychology and graduate credentials in education and school psychology.

[00:01:10] She’s also a board member with Alz Authors, and that’s how we had a chance to connect. Welcome, Christy. Thanks so much for being here today.

[00:01:17] Christy Byrne Yates: Oh, thank you so much Reyna. I’m excited to be with you and and talk with you again ’cause it was fun to talk with you with ALZ Authors also.

[00:01:25] Rayna Neises: So tell us a little bit about your caring for your parents.

[00:01:29] Christy Byrne Yates: Sure. So my parents lived about five minutes up the road. I’m in Sacramento, California. And they were such a part of our lives when our kids were young and they were my . Free babysitters, I was working full-time. My mom was sort of my proxy at the school, right? So she was a former teacher and she was involved in the kids’ schools. We just had a, we had a great life going on and my kids are growing up and when they were probably. Early middle school, late elementary. We started noticing my parents needed a lot more help and my dad had, had a stroke earlier in prior to retirement, and so that was catching up and he was having some TIAs. He was later diagnosed with vascular dementia, and my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. So it just, it got to be lots of little things, right? And I wasn’t really noticing a lot of those things until they became highly apparent. But we had to start intervening and doing some things. The gift my parents gave me was that they had. I formed a trust, managed their money. They had everything written down. I knew what they wanted at the end of their lives, and they had chosen very Intentionally wanting to go to assisted living if that was what they needed, because they didn’t wanna live with either me or my brother or my sister. Not because they didn’t love us, but because they wanted us to have our own lives. And they had had good experiences with their parents going to assisted livings, uh, situations. So that was all set. I didn’t have to really do much. As I said, I’m in Sacramento. My sister is in Montana, my brother’s in Michigan, so I was the person and So I started to take more control of things. It was just a lot of work as many caregivers know. And it wasn’t really long distance ’cause they were right there and until they needed to really move when things were not safe anymore. My mother started messing with my dad’s pill box, so she was moving things around in there. And I didn’t know that he was, that this was gonna be safe for him. And also driving like, you know, suddenly there were little dings in the car and she couldn’t remember where that came from, and things like that would happen. And she’d call me in a panic ’cause she thought she made a big mistake so were happening.

[00:03:53] Rayna Neises: She was aware sounds like.

[00:03:55] Christy Byrne Yates: She was a little bit, she, yeah, she would get scared. I think one time she felt like she’d been scammed because somebody came door to door. They lived in a retirement community, and this happens a lot in retirement communities, right? People go door to door. They’re not supposed to, but

[00:04:09] And they were selling some new phone service, which she didn’t need, but she gave him a check and she called me and said, oh my gosh, Christie, I gave somebody a check. So, Little things would scare her. I’d come anyway. This is what we did, is we, we started to take care of them.

[00:04:26] My book really talks about the gifts that they gave me by being prepared and how my husband and I then took those lessons to start become more prepared ourselves, but also my awareness of how I was impacted as a caregiver and how that impacted my parenting. So I talk a lot about that.

[00:04:44] Rayna Neises: Yeah, I think it’s so important. I love that they were so prepared. I had that same story. Most of the stories we hear are not that, but I don’t know that we are. I mean, I think we’re rare, but I don’t know that we’re as rare as it feels like we are because I think are those that are listening in a realizing .Probably the reason why ours was as prepared as it was is because my mom was diagnosed so young that that was like catalyst for my dad to be okay, let’s get all of it in order, you know? And for me, I actually had knee surgery and through a blood clot that passed through my heart and . and lodged right before it got to my lungs when I was in my early thirties.

[00:05:22] And so not only had I experienced my dad having things set up for my mom, but I realized, okay, I’m not living forever either. And though I wasn’t married and didn’t have children, I knew what a mess I would be leaving. So I think sometimes, life situations prompt people to be more prepared. But I love that you have that story.

[00:05:42] I always encourage our listeners with too is that, When you go and take care of your stuff and get those things in order, then it makes it easier to have those conversations with your parents. If they’re a little hesitant, you actually can say, we used this lawyer and he was great, and it was such an easy process, or it helps you to open those conversations.

[00:06:02] What kind of, what do you want it to look like when you get older? And at my age, I think to myself, I don’t know the answers to those questions, but least I have some things in place that can give me some options and opportunities. It helps us to also talk about it, because to me, that’s one of the most important things is just opening the door to have those conversations.

[00:06:22] Christy Byrne Yates: I could not agree more. That is so critical, and I actually recommend that very thing in my book. If you’re going to ask your parents some of these difficult questions, ask them of yourself first. Write down the questions you wanna, of the conversation you wanna have. Write down the questions you wanna ask, and then ask yourself and answer them because this, and think about how you feel when you’re Looking at some of these really heavy, I think they’re heavy. Like what do you want at the end of your life? Do you want a D N r A? Do not resuscitate what? These are heavy questions, and so ask them of yourself and really be aware of how you feel because that’s going to help you think about how you’re going to ask that

[00:07:07] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:08] Christy Byrne Yates: and, and to give space to someone else to be able to wrestle with that difficulty. And in the meantime, you’re, you’re also taking care of some of your own questions, so good.

[00:07:20] Rayna Neises: I had a guest that once challenged my perspective on that, on the D N R and on a lot of those advanced directives. She’s like, Rayna, at your age, your answers are gonna be different than they would be 20 years from now, and your answers are gonna be different if you have a cancer diagnosis or you have an Alzheimer’s diagnosis, or you’re perfectly healthy, you know, and that’s okay. They can change.

[00:07:43] And that’s one of the things that I think can be really scary is we feel like, oh, I have to make this decision now and it will always be written in stone, you know? And it’s like, no, we can actually talk about it again and, and make changes and make that a conversation. As life changes, the answers are gonna change.

[00:08:01] Christy Byrne Yates: Yes, yes. And in fact, most estate attorneys, if they’re on top of their game, will even advise People after a number of years, you wanna update it, you wanna take a look at some things. Look, you’ve probably accrued other assets or assets have been, been taken away. Whatever you, you need to change some of these things or update them.

[00:08:23] I think when my mom was doing at the assisted living, she lived at. She had to complete something called a pulse form. I can’t remember. Physician orders for life sustaining care, treatment. So she had to fill that out. And one of the questions was about D N R. And she’s like, well, Christy, what? What should I do? It was just by divine providence. There was a social worker in the room with us when we were talking about this. And I said, and she said, what were you doing? I said, but mom, I’m like, early fifties. I’ve got two kids, I, you’re like 80. This is different mom. And so what I might, what my body can take and what your body can take are gonna be different. And the stakes for me are a little different, right? I’ve got children. I’m still wanting to be here for, not that you, I don’t want you around mom, but come on, let’s, and the social worker was great. She walked, walked right into the conversation and said, let me just say, and, and, and she just affirmed what I was saying, that these are two different things and you can change them.

[00:09:28] Rayna Neises: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:29] Christy Byrne Yates: But to be really clear about that, and that was very helpful. So yeah, I, you absolutely can change things. Nothing’s ever written in stone, right?

[00:09:37] Rayna Neises: Yeah. Such an important conversation. So tell me you have a favorite caregiving story that you could share with us.

[00:09:44] Christy Byrne Yates: I, I have a couple and I, I, so, and they do revolve around my, my parents were very involved in their church. Had been sort of founding members of a new parish where they lived in, in Sacramento area. And so at the time that my dad had fallen out of bed and broken his hip and he was, gosh, Early eighties and he was fragile.

[00:10:12] He had vascular dementia, he had a lot of things going on. Kidney issues, just a lot of things. But I remember he was going to go into surgery and I was so worried about the surgery ’cause I didn’t know if he could manage even being under anesthetic as long as they would have to be. He would have to be under, and that was what the surgeon even told us. So I called our parish and I asked to have somebody come over and do an anointing of the sick. And my the parish told me, oh, all of our priests are at a retreat. I’m like, okay, who, who do I go to? And she goes, let me make a call. And the next thing I know, the the pastor of the church actually who was leading the retreat, he came and I was so touched by that, but I, what I was really touched by was how my dad reacted to what was

[00:11:07] happening awareness and his eyes were closed, but he was. Mimicking and, and saying prayers and crossing himself. And I just, I’m a big believer in I, I shared with you I’m very spiritual and I, I’m a big believer in the Holy Spirit. Like that’s for me that I grew up Catholic. So that, that’s the one that I always felt. I just felt that in our, in this room. And it was, it was, you know, it brings me to tears right now talking about it, but that’s, that was a beautiful experience. My dad did Okay. In the surgery. Right. So that, that was great.

[00:11:43] And then LA later, a very similar experience when my dad had passed away later that year, and then it was maybe seven weeks later, and my mom was, we had to put her on hospice too. She had, she was still in early stages, obviously of Alzheimer’s. It doesn’t go away, but it wasn’t Alzheimer’s that took her life. It was a recurrence of some cancer in her body. And so had placed her on hospice and my brother and my nephew came out and my sister had been there the week before and my daughter was there and my son was off to college, so he couldn’t be there. And my husband was there and we asked for a priest again, and we did the same thing. And my mother was, I just remember this beautiful look on her face of just utter peace.

[00:12:31] know, she had as many of the people around her that loved her and she felt so connected to God and that was a beautiful thing.

[00:12:40] And I, I remember my daughter in particular just on her knees holding my mom’s hands. And I just thought, oh my God, this is beautiful.

[00:12:48] So those were some beautiful things. And then I, you know, I remember lots of funny stories, but those were two that I think stand out to me of like, I am so glad that I am able to participate in this. As hard as it was, God, what a gift, that I was able to be there for those moments.

[00:13:06] Rayna Neises: definitely a a hundred percent. And I think it’s beautiful too, that though that season they weren’t able to go to church, it wasn’t necessarily your parish, those types of things. It’s honoring that for them and that, and being able to be a part of that and really see God in the middle of it.

[00:13:24] There’s so much comfort in those things, and sometimes . I think as younger generations and maybe we’re doing things differently than we were raised, that sometimes we can forget to honor their traditions and their faith because for most older people, they haven’t been able to go to church for years and they might not know who the priest or the pastor is at the church now.

[00:13:46] You know, those kinds of things. So it can get a little bit . Awkward, but I think it’s so beautiful to be able to honor that and then to really see the blessing of, of how important that was to them, and then for you and all of the generations there, to really be able to have that memory and cherish that moment.

[00:14:02] So what would be one thing that surprised you most about caregiving?

[00:14:07] Christy Byrne Yates: How much I what surprised me, how much it impacted me as a parent. I think that was something that I came to be aware of. Maybe later towards the end of my caregiving journey when things got to be a little bit more apparent about how how much my parents were fading away, right? So my mother progressing in her disease.

[00:14:37] My dad in particular progressing in his disease and how that impacted me, I was, I was not aware that I was in a grief process and they were still alive. I was in this grief process that I now know the term anticipatory grief. But you know, there’s a part of me that’s like I mean, I’m, I’m a psychologist. How come I didn’t know this, I was working with kids. It was different. I don’t know everything, you know, and that was another thing. I’m like, how come I don’t know everything but

[00:15:06] Rayna Neises: wouldn’t.

[00:15:08] Christy Byrne Yates: I’m supposed to know everything. I’m the mom. But that, that really, I think when I became aware of how much this impacted who I was as a parent, and it wasn’t always good that I had to start to ask for help in different ways. I had to be more in touch with my grief, that I could manage that I could be present to it and realize it was okay, and it was normal and natural. And oh my gosh, of course this is hard because what I, what I became sometimes was more irritable, more short-tempered. Not nice all the time, and that’s not who my kids needed. They still needed their mother to be there, to be present. They were going through life. My son was graduating high school. He needed, he needed me and I was lost in some grief. And when I became aware of that, once I acknowledge that and I could really put that together. I started to show up differently and I think that made a difference for, it made a difference for me and I believe it made a difference for my kids and I. They’re incredibly compassionate anyway, and most kids are when we give them the space to be. But I also needed to show up for them differently. And that surprised me. I didn’t realize how much that would impact me and how it would change how I reacted to that. I thought, you know, you know, you think of grief, oh, you’re crying, you’re depressed. No, I was like, I was angry. I was. Upset. Upset. I was resentful. I was lots of things that weren’t pretty and I needed to be great, give myself some grace and

[00:16:56] give myself some forgiveness for that. Stay in it when I needed to, and then move out of that and get back in touch with, okay, right now I need to give this love to my kids in a different way. So yeah, that’s what

[00:17:10] Rayna Neises: Well, and I think that is so important because again, it’s one of the things we don’t like to talk about, and we are talking to caregivers and so they’re experiencing it, and they might not have put their finger on that yet either. But one of the things that, as I walked away from my caregiving season, and one of the things that just comes back to me is there’s so many people talking about

[00:17:29] How to, how to take care of a person with dementia. How to, you know, make it so that you can answer the question 50 times, whatever, all of those things. But to me what stood out was that emotional need and how, how very hard it is to walk our loved one, no matter who they are, to walk them all way home.

[00:17:52] And I it’s so important for us to remember that we can, because sometimes people withdraw then I can’t do this. It’s too much. I’m just, I can’t, but that’s not the answer either, because the emotions are still gonna be there. Only you’re going to end up with more emotions spread on top of that with the guilt and the regret and all of the other things that could be piled on top of the normal emotions of having

[00:18:18] To walk your loved one home. So I think that’s so key in realizing that it’s dealing with myself, it’s keeping myself healthy. It’s spending the time, whether it be investing with a counselor or a coach, to really find and tag those emotions and just. Naming the emotion can be the first step that you need to take, but like you said, when you don’t even realize anticipatory grief or you don’t realize compound grief, or you don’t even understand what grief is and how it impacts the brain beyond just like you said, the tears and all of those things.

[00:18:51] Just the reprogramming that has to happen in the brain because your mom’s not the one picking up the kids from school and taking them to the activities. Those are all grief times too, and, and we have to start making decisions in a different way because they’re not a part of those decisions anymore.

[00:19:06] They can’t be that same role. Those are all such important things to start to realize, to identify and put our finger on and start to process and, then like you said, get the help, whatever it looks like. So it’s important and I don’t, I don’t think we about it enough for sure.

[00:19:22] Christy Byrne Yates: Yes. And I would agree. I, I really believe that naming it and, and I think of it as acknowledging it and, and acknowledging it, and then also acknowledging This is normal and natural. there’s there’s nothing wrong with me that I

[00:19:39] feel these feelings. Feelings are feelings. We’re going, we’re going to feel them. And a lot of people want to say, you shouldn’t feel this way, but you know what? You’re just gonna feel things.

[00:19:50] Rayna Neises: Yes,

[00:19:51] Christy Byrne Yates: What you do, you can change the, that you know, what you do is something you have control over. But

[00:19:58] Rayna Neises: right.

[00:19:58] Christy Byrne Yates: being present to what you’re feeling and then re and then experiencing it and then, and then shaping. That’s when you can start to shape your actions. When you can acknowledge where you are

[00:20:09] Rayna Neises: Right.

[00:20:10] Christy Byrne Yates: So important. Yeah.

[00:20:11] Rayna Neises: very important. So how did you find God showing up for you in your caregiving?

[00:20:18] Christy Byrne Yates: Yeah.

[00:20:19] And I, I’ve talked a little bit about that, that there were just moments of just where my faith practice growing up and my parents, their their faith. That was so strong, was very meaningful, and I, I, I really feel like whatever your faith may be, if your parents have a faith practice, it’s different from yours.

[00:20:37] I agree with you. It’s like, honor where they are and that’s important and honor where you are. For me, I had to write letters to God every night. I would just, this was my form of prayer, was writing a letter and a lot of times I was saying, Obviously the gratitude. Thank you for this. Thank you for this. Thank you for these people. But sometimes my letter was, please God, can you take this person from my mind? Because I I don’t wanna live in this resentment right now. And I, I don’t know how to let go. I’m troubled with this. Can you help me to, can I give this to you?

[00:21:19] And I, I felt like God took it from me. So that was what I, what, what showed up for me was that I was able to sleep. That was my tangible proof that something was being received. And, That was very helpful for me. And it was just, that was my way of using my spirituality and my understanding of of God to help me through these difficult times, and it’s still a practice that I employ, so it’s very important to me.

[00:21:49] Rayna Neises: I love that, and I love that everybody’s a little bit different in how they do that, but I think sometimes when we hear something we haven’t tried before, it can really give us an opportunity to say, well, I wonder what that would be like. So I, I’ve definitely been a journaler in at different seasons of my life, but I find myself at, at those most important times.

[00:22:08] you said, writing those letters, I think there’s a practice of actually putting it on paper that moves me beyond just praying about it to really let it go because there is so much that if we’re trying to hold onto it, we’re gonna, we’re gonna struggle. So being able to,

[00:22:24] Christy Byrne Yates: Right,

[00:22:25] Rayna Neises: Find that practice that helps us to let it go and, and let him be, be who he is. That’s always important. . So and this is another one that you can choose one of the three things, but I like to give people ideas on, how do you find a way to live content, love well, and care without regrets?

[00:22:45] Christy Byrne Yates: I think now one of the things that I do is I do take more time for myself. I. I am retired, so that has, saved me on so many levels. I miss working. I miss what I did for a living, but I am really at peace with I, this is where I need to be right now, and this is where my health is getting is as caregivers, we can run ourselves ragged, and I definitely did that for me. And I have a history of some autoimmune disorders, so I have to tell you, retirement. Cured me. So

[00:23:22] Rayna Neises: Wow.

[00:23:23] Christy Byrne Yates: I mean, I still have some autoimmune disorder, but i, it’s just been a time for me to really take care of myself in a different way. So that’s one way that I’m trying to live more contentedly and being able to do things that give me that connection to source, connection to life and, and help. And so things like this, you know, talking to caregivers, writing my book, volunteering that is so helpful. It’s so nourishing for me. It keeps me connected. And that’s, those are some of the things that I’m trying to do. So that’s, I hope I’ve answered your

[00:24:01] Rayna Neises: Yeah, no,

[00:24:02] Christy Byrne Yates: which one I chose, but there you go.

[00:24:03] Rayna Neises: Definitely, I think sometimes it’s typical for us to long for what we’ve always known, but to embrace and find the contentment in the new. And then like you said, you’re exploring different ways to be able to volunteer and to find what the new season of life is gonna look like. So that’s very pretty.

[00:24:21] Christy Byrne Yates: That’s right.

[00:24:22] Rayna Neises: So

[00:24:23] one last nugget of truth you’d like to pass on to our caregivers.

[00:24:28] Christy Byrne Yates: You’re, you’re worth your time. You are worth your time. It is so easy to fall into the trap of give, give, give, and saying no to other people is wrong. Like you just have to show up for everybody. But really, understanding that until you take care of yourself, you are not giving a hundred percent to anyone else. You’re giving a shell that’s gonna show up eventually, and that’s not gonna help anyone. So those times when you have to say, mom, nope, we’re not gonna do that. You know, your 12 year old comes home and says, Hey, I invited 10 girls to come over for a sleepover. That could be a time when you say, not tonight. We’re gonna need to plan for that. And that might be really disappointing, but it’s okay. So I think that we think of self-care sometimes as a bubble bath, a massage, and hey, those are all great. Sometimes self-care is not tonight. Let’s take a break. Nope, I can’t do that right now. And taking care of yourself is really important.

[00:25:34] I do believe as parents, we’re role modeling then for our kids. You don’t have to Please everybody. You need to take care of yourself and you can have conversations with your kids about that. This is why I’m doing this, you guys. ’cause today I am depleted. Tomorrow I’ll be back to closer to a hundred percent But today I’m at, today I am at 20%. So let’s not do this. And I kids will understand, partners will understand, spouses will understand, family will understand. I don’t know about work, but you can make understandable.

[00:26:10] Rayna Neises: I think sometimes we. , we have to learn, even what you just said was a way to communicate it, not just No, not just, we’ll talk about it later, but actually communicating, what’s going on. And in order to be able to do that, we have to take the time to reflect and check in on ourself. And that’s one the things that I think is a skill that just really has to be developed.

[00:26:33] Really anytime in life, but definitely while you’re caregiving is just checking in. How are you, what you need? Because so many times we don’t even long enough to know what we need. So being able to check in makes, makes such a difference.

[00:26:47] Christy Byrne Yates: exactly. And that’s why I say it’s role modeling because maybe we can teach the next generation. Here’s how you communicate that. They’re learning from you all the time. Kids are always learning, so yeah, absolutely. I think it’s finding the right, and it might be awkward at first, but you get through it and you get better and you find better words and better ways to communicate that. So yeah,

[00:27:08] Rayna Neises: Well, and that helps them even right now, be able to communicate and, and understand that maybe I don’t wanna go to this party, or I don’t wanna go hang out with these people. And that’s okay. There’s a reason that you’re feeling that and you need something different.

[00:27:20] And so it’s just what you need right now, and that’s okay too. So, yeah. Important life skill for sure. So let us know how can they get in touch with you, find your book, all of that fun stuff.

[00:27:32] Christy Byrne Yates: Sure. So my book is available wherever you can buy an online book. So it is on Amazon, but you can go through Barnes and Noble Thrift books all those places. On Amazon you can also get an ebook version and you can get the Audible.

[00:27:47] So I did record it, so I know sometimes caregivers, you can’t sit down to read a book, but you can, you’re in the car. So there you go, you can listen to it. Um, and I am on almost all of the different social medias. The, the Facebook, Instagram as Christy B Yates usually, and then my website is Christy Yates.

[00:28:08] So it’s the only, the only tricky thing with my name is there are 5 million ways to spell Christy but C h r i s t y y a t e S. So www.christyyates.com and you can find me there.

[00:28:21] Rayna Neises: Great. Thank you so much for joining us today, Christy. It’s been great to have you.

[00:28:25] Christy Byrne Yates: Thank you, Rayna. I’ve really enjoyed it. Thank you so much for asking.

[00:28:29] Rayna Neises: Listeners, thank you again for being a part of our conversation today for our stories of Hope from Christie. This episode has been brought to you by Content Magazine, an electronic quarterly magazine available today to help you find God during your caregiving season. Take a moment to take a deep breath, find Him, and then jump back into your caregiving life refreshed and ready to go.

[00:28:49] It’s available at ContentMagazine.Online. A Season of Caring Podcast has been created to share stories of hope for living content, loving well, and caring without regrets for family caregivers. If you have legal, financial, or medical questions, be sure to consult your local professionals and take heart in your season of caring.

*Transcript is an actual recount of the live conversation